Pasadena considers whether to host NFL team at Rose Bowl

Many Pasadena residents who live near the Rose Bowl complain that the city's proposal to host an NFL team for up to five years would invite massive traffic jams, unleash rowdy fan behavior and displace recreational users from the Arroyo Seco.

The Pasadena Chamber of Commerce and others say the prospect of millions of dollars in public revenue and game-related local spending is a windfall well worth the inconveniences.

On Monday, the City Council will hold a public hearing to decide what course the city may pursue.

Both the disaster and money-making scenarios are speculative. No NFL team has committed to Southern California despite years of talk, and the Los Angeles Coliseum is another option as a temporary home while a permanent new NFL stadium is built.

But if talks with the NFL are to begin, Pasadena leaders must pass an ordinance to increase the number of large events allowed at the Rose Bowl from 12 to 25 each year, approve an associated environmental study and adopt a "statement of overriding considerations" that pro football's potential benefits outweigh its downsides.

A Nov. 5 report by Barrett Sports Group, a Manhattan Beach consulting firm hired by the city, estimates that NFL games would raise $5 million to $10 million a year for the city-owned stadium, where costs for an ongoing renovation have spiraled to nearly $195 million. The gap between the funds Rose Bowl officials have and what they estimate they need has reached $30 million.

City Council members declined to say how they would vote on Monday, but several said the renovation cost was a factor.

Councilwoman Margaret McAustin said the city would seek to reduce impacts on Rose Bowl neighbors if it decided to go ahead with the plan.

"It's not that we'll do this at all costs … [but] we have to keep in mind that the Rose Bowl is a football stadium," she said. "We're not spending $200 million to preserve it as a museum."

Mayor Bill Bogaard, who opposed a 2005 plan to bring pro football to the Rose Bowl permanently and give the NFL control over stadium renovations, said he was giving this plan serious thought. "That funding gap would be relieved if we were to strike the right deal with the NFL," he said.

But the right deal remains elusive, said Linda Vista-Annandale Assn. President Nina Chomsky, an opponent of the plan.

"They are trying to more than double the amount of events at the Rose Bowl without any contract or deal that tells us what the full impacts will be, so any attempt to mitigate those impacts is speculative," Chomsky said.

The city's 688-page environmental study found that NFL games would result in "significant and unavoidable" traffic congestion, emissions, noise and disruptions in the central Arroyo Seco.

The arrival of more than 25,000 vehicles during eight home games, two preseason games and possible playoff matches would disrupt joggers and prompt the Kidspace Museum, Rose Bowl Aquatic Center and Brookside Golf Course to go dark on those Sundays.

Chomsky added that back-to-back college and pro games would clog the area for entire weekends.

Sixty-four letters and two petitions were submitted as public comment on the environmental study, most against the proposal.

Several writers expressed fears that NFL games would attract alcohol-fueled and criminal mischief, with one Arroyo resident imagining "ever-expanding cultural crassness" on game days.

Contemporary Services Corp., which handles security at the Rose Bowl and stadiums throughout the country, countered in a Nov. 5 report to the city that "our experience has indicated that NFL fans are generally more orderly than college football fans."

joe.piasecki@latimes.com

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Israel Sticks to Tough Approach in Conflict With Hamas

TEL AVIV — With rockets landing on the outskirts of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem on Friday and the Egyptian prime minister making a solidarity visit to Gaza, the accelerating conflict between Israel and Hamas — reminiscent in many ways of so many previous battles — has the makings of a new kind of Israeli-Palestinian face-off.

The combination of longer-range and far deadlier rockets in the hands of more radicalized Palestinians, the arrival in Gaza and Sinai from North Africa of other militants pressuring Hamas to fight more, and the growing tide of anti-Israel fury in a region where authoritarian rulers have been replaced by Islamists means that Israel is engaging in this conflict with a different set of challenges.

The Middle East of 2012 is not what it was in late 2008, the last time Israel mounted a military invasion to reduce the rocket threat from Gaza. Many analysts and diplomats outside Israel say the country today needs a different approach to Hamas and the Palestinians based more on acknowledging historic grievances and shifting alliances.

“As long as the crime of dispossession and refugeehood that was committed against the Palestinian people in 1947-48 is not redressed through a peaceful and just negotiation that satisfies the legitimate rights of both sides, we will continue to see enhancements in both the determination and the capabilities of Palestinian fighters — as has been the case since the 1930s, in fact,” Rami G. Khouri, a professor at the American University of Beirut, wrote in an online column. “Only stupid or ideologically maniacal Zionists fail to come to terms with this fact.”

But the government in Israel and the vast majority of its people have drawn a very different conclusion. Their dangerous neighborhood is growing still more dangerous, they agree. That means not concessions, but being tougher in pursuit of deterrence, and abandoning illusions that a Jewish state will ever be broadly accepted here.

“There is a theory, which I believe, that Hamas doesn’t want a peaceful solution and only wants to keep the conflict going forever until somehow in their dream they will have all of Israel,” Eitan Ben Eliyahu, a former leader of the Israeli Air Force, said in a telephone briefing. “There is a good chance we will go into Gaza on the ground again.”

What is striking in listening to the Israelis discuss their predicament is how similar the debate sounds to so many previous ones, despite the changed geopolitical circumstances. In most minds here, the changes do not demand a new strategy, simply a redoubled old one.

The operative metaphor is often described as “cutting the grass,” meaning a task that must be performed regularly and has no end. There is no solution to security challenges, officials here say, only delays and deterrence. That is why the idea of one day attacking Iranian nuclear facilities, even though such an attack would set the nuclear program back only two years, is widely discussed as a reasonable option. That is why frequent raids in the West Bank and surveillance flights over Lebanon never stop.

And that is why this week’s operation in Gaza is widely viewed as having been inevitable, another painful but necessary maintenance operation that, officials here say, will doubtless not be the last.

There are also those who believe that the regional upheavals are improving Israel’s ability to carry out deterrence. One retired general who remains close to the military and who spoke on the condition of anonymity said that with Syria torn apart by civil war, Hezbollah in Lebanon discredited because of its support for the Syrian government, and Egypt so weakened economically, Israel should not worry about anything but protecting its civilians.

“Should we let our civilians be bombed because the Arab world is in trouble?” he asked.

So much was happening elsewhere in the region — the Egyptian and Libyan revolutions, the Syrian civil war, dramatic changes in Yemen and elections in Tunisia — that a few rockets a day that sent tens of thousands of Israeli civilians into bomb shelters drew little attention. But in the Israeli view, the necessity of a Gaza operation has been growing steadily throughout the Arab Spring turmoil.

In 2009, after the Israeli invasion pushed Hamas back and killed about 1,400 people in Gaza, 200 rockets hit Israel. The same was true in 2010. But last year the number rose to 600, and before this week the number this year was 700, according to the Israeli military. The problem went beyond rockets to mines planted near the border aimed at Israeli military jeeps and the digging of explosive-filled tunnels.

“In 2008 we managed to minimize rocket fire from Gaza significantly,” said Lt. Col. Avital Leibovich, a military spokeswoman. “We started that year with 100 rockets a week and ended it with two a week. We were able to give people in our south two to three years. But the grass has grown, and other things have as well. Different jihadist ideologies have found their way into Gaza, including quite a few terrorist organizations. More weapons have come in, including the Fajr-5, which is Iranian made and can hit Tel Aviv. That puts nearly our entire population in range. So we reached a point where we cannot act with restraint any longer.”

Gazans see events in a very different light. The problem, they say, comes from Israel: Israeli drones fill the Gazan skies, Israeli gunboats strafe their waters, Palestinian militants are shot at from the air, and the Gaza border areas are declared off limits by Israel with the risk of death from Israeli gunfire.

But there is little dissent in Israel about the Gaza policy. This week leaders of the leftist opposition praised the assassination of Ahmed al-Jabari, the Hamas military commander, on Wednesday. He is viewed here as the equivalent of Osama bin Laden. The operation could go on for many days before there is any real dissent.

The question here, nonetheless, is whether the changed regional circumstances will make it harder to “cut the grass” in Gaza this time and get out. A former top official who was actively involved in the last Gaza war and who spoke on the condition of anonymity said it looked to him as if Hamas would not back down as easily this time.

“They will not stop until enough Israelis are killed or injured to create a sense of equality or balance,” he said. “If a rocket falls in the middle of Tel Aviv, that will be a major success. But this government will go back at them hard. I don’t see this ending in the next day or two.”

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News Summary: UK court overturns Facebook demotion

PUNISHED: Britain‘s High Court ruled Friday that a man had been unfairly stripped of a management position and demoted for saying in a Facebook post that he was opposed to gay marriage.

COURT RULING: The court said the Trafford Housing Trust breached Adrian Smith‘s contract and a judge added that Smith had not done anything wrong. Smith had written on Facebook that gay weddings in churches would be “an equality too far.”

EVOLVING LAW: In Britain, same-sex couples can form civil partnerships that carry the same legal rights marriages do. The government plans to introduce legislation allowing civil marriages as well.

Social Media News Headlines – Yahoo! News

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Khloé Kardashian and Lamar Odom Will Be Apart for Thanksgiving

TV Watch

The X Factor

By Andrea Billups

11/16/2012 at 10:35 PM EST

Lamar Odom and Khloé Kardashian

Denise Truscello/Wireimage

As most Americans sit down for Thanksgiving dinner, he'll be on the court with the Los Angeles Clippers in New York and she'll be on the stage in Los Angeles.

But even if Khloé Kardashian, 28, and her basketball star husband Lamar Odom, 33, won't be together this year for the family holiday, they remain connected and supportive as both continue their busy careers.

"Honestly, I'm fine with it, because I'm obsessed with my husband – in a healthy way – but he's on the road. He has a game in Brooklyn, so I don't feel guilty, like, 'I'm not going to be able to cook for him!' " Kardashian told PEOPLE from the set of The X Factor on Thursday.

"So, he'll be on the road. He'll be working anyway. So, I feel better about that, and my sister Kim will be here. And I think my mom will come here that night, too. Thanksgiving at The X Factor!"

Wherever her husband may be, Kardashian says Odom lovingly takes time to watch her show, even if it's a replay on YouTube, where he often makes fun of her voice. Odom, she adds, has also given her other advice, chiding her for being a bit ... overexposed.

"The only tip he gave me was don't show your nipples anymore," Kardashian joked. He said, "Please do not have your [breasts] out." I said, 'Oh, good tip.' "

As she gets emotionally invested in the show's talented contestants and in watching their gut-wrenching departures, Kardashian says she is also trying to improve her own skills co-hosting the show with Mario Lopez. Her famous siblings have been supportive thus far, offering their own tips.

"I'm still learning. I'm still just trying to get better, and better every week," she said of her new role. "I like constructive criticism, but still it's only a one or two-hour show, and there's still so many people. I just don't have time to just talk, and be myself yet."

"And right now, it's so technical. I feel like, when more people go, there's going to be more time to fill. And I feel like that's where I can kind of do my thing."

• Reporting by PATRICK GOMEZ

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EU drug regulator OKs Novartis' meningitis B shot

LONDON (AP) — Europe's top drug regulator has recommended approval for the first vaccine against meningitis B, made by Novartis AG.

There are five types of bacterial meningitis. While vaccines exist to protect against the other four, none has previously been licensed for type B meningitis. In Europe, type B is the most common, causing 3,000 to 5,000 cases every year.

Meningitis mainly affects infants and children. It kills about 8 percent of patients and leaves others with lifelong consequences such as brain damage.

In a statement on Friday, Andrin Oswald of Novartis said he is "proud of the major advance" the company has made in developing its vaccine Bexsero. It is aimed at children over two months of age, and Novartis is hoping countries will include the shot among the routine ones for childhood diseases such as measles.

Novartis said the immunization has had side effects such as fever and redness at the injection site.

Recommendations from the European Medicines Agency are usually adopted by the European Commission. Novartis also is seeking to test the vaccine in the U.S.

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GOP strategist launches super PAC in L.A. mayor's race

Looking to dramatically tip the scales in the race for Los Angeles' next mayor, a nationally prominent Republican media strategist has formed a "super PAC" that aims to spend millions of dollars to elect dark-horse mayoral candidate Kevin James.

Fred Davis, a GOP advertising man who has worked on campaigns for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, U.S. Senate hopeful Carly Fiorina and former President George W. Bush, said the Better Way LA committee has raised nearly $500,000 on behalf of James and plans to collect at least $3.5 million more.

The PAC is the first outside committee to form on behalf of a mayoral candidate in the March 5 election. Davis, who lives in Hollywood, said a victory for James, a former prosecutor who is both gay and Republican, could ignite a "rebirth" of the GOP in California, where Democrats hold two-thirds of the seats in the Legislature, and Republican voter registration has fallen below 30%.

Since the campaign began, James has struggled to raise the big money needed to carry his message on 30-second television ads and multiple glossy mailings. Davis said he would even the playing field by putting the blame for the city's financial crisis on the other three leading candidates — City Controller Wendy Greuel and City Council members Eric Garcetti and Jan Perry — and identifying James as "the only one capable" of fixing the city.

"He's the only one of the four who wasn't part of the problem," said Davis, chairman of Better Way LA, which filed formation papers with the city Ethics Commission last week.

Los Angeles campaign finance rules prohibit citywide candidates from receiving more than $1,300 from each donor during an election cycle. But independent expenditure committees such as Better Way LA can spend as much as they want on a candidate's behalf, a practice used for years in city elections by the public employee unions and, to a lesser degree, business groups.

"There's no real definition for a super PAC," said Bob Stern, a state government expert who helped draft the city's campaign finance law. "They're basically called that because they're not connected with the candidate and raising lots of money. That's the super part."

Whether Davis' role in the mayor's race will trigger a Republican rebirth is far from clear. Just 16.3% of voters in Los Angeles are registered with the GOP, one-third the number who identify themselves as Democrats, according to figures provided by the registrar-recorder/county clerk.

Davis said a second organization, Fix It LA, has been assembled as a nonprofit 501(c)4 advocacy group in case there are donors who want to help James get elected without having their identities revealed.

James, for his part, said he was thrilled that Davis is "excited" about his campaign but did not know of the details. "If private citizens want to step up and support my campaign, or … get involved in this race, I'm willing to have any kind of support that's willing to come my way," he said.

For weeks, James has marketed himself as the mayoral campaign's only true outsider. Appearing at a candidate forum Wednesday, he said Perry, Garcetti and Greuel — all city elected officials for more than a decade — should not be rewarded with a promotion given the city's service cuts and ongoing financial crisis.

Those arguments have not translated into financial firepower. By Sept. 30, Greuel and Garcetti had each raised 10 times as much as James, who had collected $275,000, according to campaign finance reports. Perry, who has raised $1.3 million, said recent elections have shown that money doesn't necessarily decide the outcome.

"If that were the case, Jackie Lacey wouldn't be the district attorney now," she said. "I can think of many examples — Meg Whitman, Al Checchi — but Jackie is only the most recent."

Rose Kapolczynski, senior advisor to Greuel, offered a similar message, saying GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney's super PACs "showed that you can spend millions in secret funds and still not guarantee victory on election day."

Better Way LA could draw attention to James for reasons that have nothing to do with City Hall. Davis drew fire earlier this year for pitching a commercial against President Obama that, had it aired, would have exploited the Democrat's ties to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

David also took heat for a campaign ad in Michigan that depicted a Chinese woman speaking broken English and talking about jobs that had been exported to China. Davis, 60, dismissed that criticism, saying "people are more concerned about winning than the press on a couple ads."

Davis said he met James after giving an address in Culver City in July. They wound up speaking for two hours about "elections and how you get elected," he said. Soon afterward, Davis called other like-minded business people about forming Better Way LA, he said.

david.zahniser@latimes.com

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C.I.A. Investigates Petraeus Affair as Lawmakers Press Libya Attack Inquiry

Mark Wilson/Getty Images

The acting C.I.A. director, Michael J. Morell arrived Thursday for closed-door meetings about the attack that killed four Americans in Libya.

WASHINGTON — The Central Intelligence Agency’s inspector general has started an investigation into the general conduct of David H. Petraeus, who resigned last week as the C.I.A.’s director after admitting to having an affair with his biographer, Paula Broadwell.

The inquiry will focus largely on whether Mr. Petraeus misused the trappings and perquisites of his position, including security details, private jets and special accommodations, to facilitate the affair, a person familiar with the investigation said.

There is no evidence so far to suggest Mr. Petraeus did so, said agency officials, who notified the House and Senate Intelligence Committees of the matter on Thursday. But given the extraordinary circumstances, agency officials thought it prudent to have the inspector general review Mr. Petraeus’s conduct.

“An investigation is exploratory and doesn’t presuppose any particular outcome,” said Preston Golson, a C.I.A. spokesman.

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said on Thursday that the F.B.I. investigation into a cyberstalking case that revealed the affair concluded that e-mails Mr. Petraeus and Ms. Broadwell exchanged did not violate national security.

Speaking at a news conference in New Orleans to announce a settlement with the oil company BP, Mr. Holder said the White House and Congress were not notified about Mr. Petraeus’s situation until last week because the national security concerns had been allayed.

“As we went through the investigation, we looked at the facts and tried to examine them as they developed,” Mr. Holder said. “We felt very secure in the knowledge that a national security threat did not exist that warranted the sharing of that information with the White House or with the Hill.”

The spotlight will turn to Mr. Petraeus on Friday, when he testifies in closed session to the House and Senate Intelligence Committees — not about his affair, though that may well come up, but mainly about the attacks on the American Mission in Benghazi, Libya.

Mr. Petraeus gave his first interview since resigning, telling Kyra Phillips of CNN that he had never given classified information to Ms. Broadwell and that his resignation had been solely because of their relationship. He said it had nothing to do with disagreements over the attack on the American Mission and a C.I.A. safe house in Benghazi.

Leading administration officials, meanwhile, met privately with lawmakers for a third straight day to explain how the Petraeus investigation was handled and explore its national security implications. Among those appearing before the House and Senate Intelligence Committees were James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence; Michael J. Morell, the acting C.I.A. director; and Sean Joyce, the deputy F.B.I. director.

After a four-hour closed hearing on Thursday, Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat who heads the Intelligence Committee, said the panel had reviewed a detailed chronology of the attack on Sept. 11 that killed Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three other Americans. It included a video made from a composite of sources, including Predator drone video of the events that night.

Ms. Feinstein said that in addition to meeting with Mr. Petraeus on Friday to hear his account of the attack — as well as an assessment of a visit he made just two weeks ago to the C.I.A.’s station in Tripoli, Libya’s capital — the committee would hold at least three additional hearings on the matter.

“We are in effect fact-finding,” she said.

Ms. Feinstein and the panel’s senior Republican, Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, declined to tell reporters what questions they had asked the witnesses, but Mr. Chambliss and his colleagues said previously they would examine possible intelligence flaws, security lapses and the Obama administration’s handling of the issue.

“Were mistakes made?” Mr. Chambliss said. “We know mistakes were made, and we’ve got to learn from that.”

Earlier in the day, the same administration officials faced tough questioning from members of the House Intelligence Committee.

Representative C. A. Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland, the committee’s top Democrat, said after the hearing that he was satisfied the F.B.I. had behaved properly in not notifying the White House or lawmakers about the inquiry sooner, in keeping with post-Watergate rules set up to prevent interference in criminal investigations.

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The X Factor Reveals Its Top 12

TV Watch

The X Factor

11/15/2012 at 11:00 PM EST

Demi Lovato and Simon Cowell

Double elimination time on The X Factor!

The top 12 performed songs by divas the night before – and then faced a night of diva-worthy drama on Thursday's show. And it was a particularly tough night for the young adults' coach, Demi Lovato, after the outcome of the viewers' votes were revealed.

Keep reading for all the results ...

Early in the hour, hosts Mario Lopez and Khloé Kardashian announced the act with the lowest number of votes was Simon Cowell's hip-hop group Lyric 145, who performed a mash-up of Queen's "We Will Rock You" and Katy Perry's "E.T." on Wednesday.

"We didn't get the opportunity to show what we really had," frontwoman Lyric Da Queen said. "We hard original lyrics ... But we're just taking the good with the bad right now."

Nine acts were then declared safe, leaving two to sing for survival – and they were both from Demi's team: Jennel Garcia and Paige Thomas.

Jennel performed an emotional rendition of Hoobastank's "The Reason," and Paige sang Coldplay's "Paradise."

Then the judges had to vote for the act they wanted to send home.

"I'm shocked that either of them are at the bottom," L.A. Reid said. He voted to send home Jennel. Britney followed his lead. Simon refused to say his choice and forced Demi to go first. "The act that I'm going to send home is Paige," she said. It was up to Simon to avoid a tie – and he picked Jennel.

So, Demi was the only one to reject Paige and she'll have to work with her again next week. Awkward!

"You're so unbelievably talented and you have a future ahead of you so I'm not worried," Demi told Jennel. "I love you and I really, really believe in you."

And then the co-hosts announced the ranking of the top 10 based on who got the most votes:

10. Paige Thomas
9. Arin Ray
8. Beatrice Miller
7. Diamond White
6. Fifth Harmony
5. CeCe Frey
4. Emblem3
3. Vino Alan
2. Carly Rose Sonenclar
1. Tate Stevens

The show's only country singer does it again!

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Diabetes rates rocket in Oklahoma, South

NEW YORK (AP) — The nation's diabetes problem is getting worse, and the biggest jump over 15 years was in Oklahoma, according to a new federal report issued Thursday.

The diabetes rate in Oklahoma more than tripled, and Kentucky, Georgia and Alabama also saw dramatic increases since 1995, the study showed.

The South's growing weight problem is the main explanation, said Linda Geiss, lead author of the report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study.

"The rise in diabetes has really gone hand in hand with the rise in obesity," she said.

Bolstering the numbers is the fact that more people with diabetes are living longer because better treatments are available.

The disease exploded in the United States in the last 50 years, with the vast majority from obesity-related Type 2 diabetes. In 1958, fewer than 1 in 100 Americans had been diagnosed with diabetes. In 2010, it was about 1 in 14.

Most of the increase has happened since 1990.

Diabetes is a disease in which the body has trouble processing sugar; it's the nation's seventh leading cause of death. Complications include poor circulation, heart and kidney problems and nerve damage.

The new study is the CDC's first in more than a decade to look at how the nationwide boom has played out in different states.

It's based on telephone surveys of at least 1,000 adults in each state in 1995 and 2010. Participants were asked if a doctor had ever told them they have diabetes.

Not surprisingly, Mississippi — the state with the largest proportion of residents who are obese — has the highest diabetes rate. Nearly 12 percent of Mississippians say they have diabetes, compared to the national average of 7 percent.

But the most dramatic increases in diabetes occurred largely elsewhere in the South and in the Southwest, where rates tripled or more than doubled. Oklahoma's rate rose to about 10 percent, Kentucky went to more than 9 percent, Georgia to 10 percent and Alabama surpassed 11 percent.

An official with Oklahoma State Department of Health said the solution is healthier eating, more exercise and no smoking.

"And that's it in a nutshell," said Rita Reeves, diabetes prevention coordinator.

Several Northern states saw rates more than double, too, including Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and Maine.

The study was published in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

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Associated Press writer Ken Miller in Oklahoma City contributed to this report.

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Online:

CDC report: http://tinyurl.com/cdcdiabetesreport

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L.A. mayoral candidates debate Riordan pension overhaul plan

Former Los Angeles Mayor Richard Riordan's plan for cutting city pension costs took center stage at Wednesday's mayoral forum in Koreatown, with three of the four leading candidates in the March 5 election speaking against it during or after the event.

Former federal prosecutor Kevin James was the only candidate at the forum, sponsored by the nonprofit Korean American Coalition, to speak in favor of Riordan's plan, which would move newly hired city employees into 401(k)-style plans, not government pensions.

City Councilman Eric Garcetti opposed Riordan's plan, saying it would not produce any savings for 15 years. He also warned that the proposal would make it harder for city officials to cover the retirement costs of existing employees, who would continue to be eligible for pensions even as new hires move into 401(k)s.

"In simple terms, [Riordan's plan] costs us more," he told the audience, which was gathered in a movie theater at the MaDang shopping center on Western Avenue.

Alex Rubalcava, an advisor to Riordan, disputed that assessment, saying afterward that the proposed May ballot measure would "save more than anything the city has done to date cumulatively" on pension costs.

City Controller Wendy Greuel and City Councilwoman Jan Perry were not as clear on the topic as Garcetti during the debate. But once the forum ended, neither gave support to Riordan's plan.

Perry said she would not sign a petition to get Riordan's measure on the ballot if approached by one of his signature gatherers at a supermarket. "I think converting from pensions to a 401(k) is a highly risky proposition that could back money out of the general fund," the budget that pays for basic services, she said.

Greuel told the audience that the city should focus on the practice of "double dipping," or giving an employee a pension from one city job while paying him or her a salary for another. And after the debate ended, she said she remains concerned about the legality of Riordan's proposal — particularly a provision to reduce the retirement benefits of existing city workers — and its effect on police officers.

"I have concerns about it being ... sustainable in the city of L.A.," she added. "So today it would not be something I would support."

david.zahniser@latimes.com

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